Loading...
PC Min - 10/09/2012CITY OF CAMPBELL PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES 7:30 P.M. The Planning Commission meeting of October 9, 2012, was called to order at 7:30 p.m., in the Council Chambers, 70 North First Street, Campbell, California by Chair Reynolds and the following proceedings were had, to wit: OCTOBER 9, 2012 CITY HALL COUNCIL CHAMBERS TUESDAY ROLL CALL Commissioners Present: Chair: Vice Chair: Commissioner: Commissioner: Commissioner: Commissioner: Commissioner: Philip C. Reynolds, Jr. Paul Resnikoff Brian Brennan Pam Finch Elizabeth Gibbons John Razumich Bob Roseberry Commissioners Absent Staff Present: APPROVAL OF MINUTES None Interim Community Development Director: Associate Planner: City Attorney: Recording Secretary: Paul Kermoyan Steve Prosser William Seligmann Corinne Shinn Motion: Upon motion by Commissioner Brennan, seconded by Commissioner Roseberry, the Planning Commission minutes of the meeting of September 11, 2012, were approved with a modification to page 2 to reflect a question asked by Commissioner Gibbons. (6-0-0-1; Commissioner Razumich abstained) Campbell Planning Commission Minutes for October 9, 2012 Page 2 COMMUNICATIONS There were no communications items. AGENDA MODIFICATIONS OR POSTPONEMENTS There were no agenda modifications or postponements. ORAL REQUESTS There were no oral requests. *** PUBLIC HEARINGS Commissioner Finch advised that she would need to recuse from Agenda Item No. 1 due to a professional conflict. She left the dais and chamber for the duration of the hearing. Chair Reynolds read Agenda Item No. 1 into the record as follows: 1. PLN2011-272 Public Hearing to consider the application of David Elliott for a Conditional Use Permit with Site and Architectural Review Permit (PLN2011-272) to allow an addition and conversion of an existing vehicle service station into a 7-Eleven convenience market with late night activity and beer and wine sales on property located at 337 E. Hamilton Avenue in the C-2 (General Commercial) Zoning District. Staff is recommending that this project be deemed Categorically Exempt under CEQA. Planning Commission action final unless appealed in writing to the City Clerk within 10 calendar days. Project Planner: Steve Prosser, Associate Planner Mr. Steve Prosser, Associate Planner, presented the staff report as follows: • Advised that the applicant is seeking approval of a Conditional Use Permit with Site and Architectural Review for a site located at 337 E. Hamilton Avenue, which is on the northwest corner of Hamilton at Central. • Reported that this site was developed with a gas station with covered pump stations in approximately 1967. In 1969 a restaurant was constructed on an adjacent parcel. • Explained that this service station sits on two separate parcels. One where the structure is located and a subordinate parcel to the west. • Said that the zoning is C-2 (General Commercial). Surrounding uses include a restaurant to the west; a liquor store to the east; a convalescent hospital to the north; multi-family and another service station with existing alcohol sales to the southeast and multi-tenant retail and offices to the south. Campbell Planning Commission Minutes for October 9, 2012 Page 3 • Described the project site as consisting of a 1,600 square foot service station with three service bays located on the southern portion of the site. Existing parking surrounds. Access is via two driveways off N. Central Avenue and two driveways off E. Hamilton Avenue. • Said that the request is for Site and Architectural approval to add 1,300 square feet to the existing station with an exterior and interior remodel. A Use Permit is requested to allow off-sale beer and wine and 24-hour operations. • Stated that since the 1,300 square foot addition would cross property lines a condition of approval has been drafted requiring a lot merger. As part of that merger process, existing private utility easements would need to be abandoned prior to issuance of building permits. • Said that the parking requirement is one space per 250 square feet. Therefore, 12 spaces are required and proposed. Three spaces are located on the eastern portion of the property and nine on the western portion of the property. Two spaces on the northern portion will be restricted for employee use only because of their awkward location next to the trash enclosure. • Reported that SARC had expressed concern about the access to proposed parking along the eastern elevation and recommended reorienting that parking to be perpendicular. The site plan was revised accordingly. • Stated that the proposal meets the standards of the C-2 Zoning District as far as lot coverage, parking and landscaping. Additionally, the Hamilton Avenue Streetscape Standards will be installed as well as 10 feet of private landscaping at the front property line along Hamilton Avenue. The applicant is proposing use of turf block, south of the pump island canopy and the conditions of approval include this option. • Added that the Commission could recommend removal of turf block and a reduction in the landscaping requirement. • Said that the changes include an exterior remodel, modification of an existing block wall; roofing changes, a new entry element and additional glazing to create additional natural light within the building. • Reported that SARC reviewed the proposed colors and expressed concern that they mimic corporate colors. SARC recommended the modification of the colors to prevent that. A condition of approval requires a color material board be provided to the Community Development Director for approval. • Reminded that the Conditional Use Permit would allow 24-hour operation and beer and wine sales. There are three potential issues to consider including noise, on- site lighting and beer and wine sales. • Pointed out that there is currently no 24-hour operation at this location. • Described Hamilton Avenue as a Class 1 arterial that primarily serves commuter traffic to and from home. • Said that this could be an appropriate use. It would be the first 24-hour operation located along E. Hamilton between Winchester and Highway 17. • Added that the standard conditions of approval concerning noise are included that allows the Director, upon a confirmed noise complaint, to modify the hours and bring the Use Permit back to the Commission. Outdoor clean up hours are limited to standard business hours of 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. • Said that while there is always consideration taken about potential lighting impacts on surrounding properties, no changes to existing lighting on site are proposed. A Campbell Planning Commission Minutes for October 9, 2012 Page 4 condition of approval would require staff approval of any proposed new lighting prior to occupancy. • Said that impacts of additional beer and wine sales are evaluated. There are three businesses on this intersection with beer and wine sales. There is another existing service station at this intersection with alcohol sales but no late hours. This will be the first location with late night hours and alcohol. • Said that staff reviewed Police Department calls for service and this application was forwarded to PD for review and comment. There were 24 calls for service but none were for alcohol-related activities. There were some complaints about theft. PD expressed no concerns about the addition of beer and wine sales as long as the beer and wine sales end at 11 p.m. Both PD and Planning staff recommend that alcohol sales end at 11 p.m. The applicant has no concern with that restriction. • Said that there are seven existing alcohol establishments including one restaurant with later operations located at Hamilton and Almarida. • Reported that SARC recommendations have either been incorporated in the plans or as conditions of approval. • Recommended that the Planning Commission adopt a resolution to allow this Conditional Use Permit with Site and Architectural Review Permit to convert service bays within an existing service station into a convenience market with beer and wine (restricted) sales. Chair Reynolds opened the Public Hearing for Agenda Item No. 1. Mr. David Elliott, Project Architect and Applicant: • Said that he has worked with Director Paul Kermoyan and Planner Steve Prosser as well as staff from the Public Works Department in planning this project. • Stated his appreciation for SARC's input that helped to improve the project's on-site traffic flow, color scheme, parking and vapor recovery system. • Said that his client owns and operates this and other stations. • Explained that turf block is his answer to the request for landscaping along Hamilton Avenue. SARC's recommendation was not having this landscaping at all. However, if green is desired there, turf block is a possible option. • Added that he has some additional written information about the turf block product with him this evening for the Commission's review. • Pointed out that the use of turf block would help with site drainage. • Said that there is a question of the durability of the turf block. It is used in residential areas and areas with little traffic. It consists of a structure base with sand and a drip system. It may need to be upgraded or replaced in the future. However, his client wants people to be able to drive around the site including on this turf block area. • Promised that his client would do his best to make sure the turf stays green. • Reported that a substantial amount of site work must be done including sidewalk and landscaping in the public domain and new trees. This results in quite a bit of work and expense. The addition of 24-hour operations and beer and wine sales is an important component in recovering that investment. • Advised that he has similar projects underway in Cupertino, Dublin, Tracy and several in San Jose so he is familiar with what the issues are. In Oakland a similar Campbell Planning Commission Minutes for October 9, 2012 Page 5 station has been approved with the requirement for cone-year review. He said that the owner has a deal with the Oakland PD. PD's cell phones are connected to the security system of the station so that if 911 calls are made, PD can see exactly what is going on and can be better informed as to response needs. In Cupertino, the alcohol sales must cease at midnight. • Stated that his client has no problem ending alcohol sales at 11 p.m. at this Campbell location. • Expressed his hope that the Commission would approve this application and reiterated that they concur with the proposed conditions of approval. Commissioner Reynolds asked about the utility easement and whether there are any utilities there. Mr. David Elliott said that there is one power pole that can be relocated easily. Commissioner Gibbons said that she appreciates the efforts taken following the SARC meeting. She questioned why the driveway approach along N. Central is 40 feet wide. Mr. David Elliott said that the Public Works Department allows a 40-foot driveway approach. He advised that there are two smaller driveways along Central at the present time to be replaced with one larger one. Commissioner Gibbons said it appears the existing are between 25 and 30 feet wide. Mr. David Elliott clarified that the existing are 36 feet wide. Commissioner Gibbons asked Mr. David Elliott to provide the literature on the turf block that he mentioned this evening. Mr. David Elliott provided the material for review. Commissioner Gibbons: • Said that it's possible this material would fail. • Stated that there is a question as to whether the turf block is the right option in this location. • Suggested that perhaps permeable pavers all the way across the front might be a better option. • Said that the clay soil in Campbell is not conducive to turf but the permeable pavers might help manage drainage. Mr. David Elliott said he is amiable to that as well. Commissioner Brennan asked Mr. David Elliott if there has been contact with the folks at the convalescent home. Mr. David Elliott replied none. Commissioner Razumich asked if the propane is sold in canisters or from a large tank. Campbell Planning Commission Minutes for October 9, 2012 Page 6 Mr. David Elliott said that they want to retain the retail integrity up front and relocate the existing 500-gallon propane tank to the back near the trash enclosure. Commissioner Razumich asked about the Vapor Extraction System proposed for behind the building. Is it above ground? What is the size of the equipment? Mr. David Elliott said that it is 8 x 8 and screened. Commissioner Razumich said that it might be advised to put in fencing at the back to prevent loitering back there. Chair Reynolds closed the Public Hearing for Agenda Item No. 1. Commissioner Resnikoff provided the Site and Architectural Review Committee report as follows: • SARC reviewed this project on September 25, 2012. • Reported that the recommendations made by SARC included changes to the proposed exterior colors to eliminate use of corporate colors; re-orient the parking and limit parking spaces #8 and #9 to staff parking; relocate the Vapor Extraction System and remove the proposed turf block. Commissioner Roseberry: • Stated that this is a pretty good project and he likes the way it cleans up the street. • Added that he likes the improvements. • Reported that he has purchased propane from this station before. • Cautioned that an active service station is not without its own noises. It is located right along a busy corridor. It's a busy street and it's close to a highway. • Suggested that turf block may have limited success. It is marginal when not driven on but driving on it more than 10 times a day may kill it. • Added that he is not opposed to the turf block but is not optimistic about it either. • Supported adding a fence at the back to provide more security. • Stated that the photo metrics look good. • Said that this is a pretty decent proposal and staff did a great job to determine issues. • Expressed appreciation for their efforts. Commissioner Gibbons: • Said that she has a lot of positive things as well. • Stated that this is a great location for amini-market and gas station. • Said that the conditions of approval take care of noise issues, hours and alcohol. • Pointed out that there is a signal at this intersection that makes u-turns easier. There is a Shell service station located closer to the highway. • Advised that she has significant concerns about adding alcohol sales to this location. Alcohol sales are not necessary as there are existing alcohol sales sites located nearby. Campbell Planning Commission Minutes for October 9, 2012 Page 7 • Added that she is okay with 24-hour operations because it can be revoked in one year if problems result. • Reminded that there is precedent to deny adding alcohol sales. Walgreens at Winchester and Hamilton was denied the addition of alcohol sales. • Stated that this is predominately a residential area with schools nearby. There is an overconcentration of alcohol sales in this area and adding more should not be supported. Commissioner Razumich: • Said that a good job has been done on the building design. • Expressed understanding that sales are needed to justify the upgrade. • Reported that it is his understanding that no more Type 20 licenses are being allowed in San Jose. • Said that he is not opposed to ABC Type 20 licenses. • Stated that staff did a great job limiting hours for alcohol sales. • Proposed limiting alcohol to 10 percent or less of the floor area and prohibiting the sale of individual cans or larger 40-ounce cooled containers. • Said that things should be done to dissuade problems and loitering issues. • Suggested that it would be wise to make store frontage sidewalk wide enough to allow display of merchandize such as propane canisters. • Added that individual propane canisters are better than the noisier larger tank system. • Agreed that it appears that the traffic on site may be too high to successfully use turf block. He said he doesn't see it holding up. • Said that staff and the applicant have done a good job. • Stated that he is not concerned with 24-hour operation. Commissioner Resnikoff: • Said that he is less concerned about adding alcohol sales given that the sales hours are cut off early enough and the PD is not concerned. • Added that there is a one-year review opportunity to correct any problems. • Supported restricting alcohol sales by gross floor area. • Questioned what percentage alcohol would represent versus other retail products. Director Paul Kermoyan: • Said that the reason staff structured this was to de-emphasize the sale of alcohol. • Advised that markets are not counted as liquor stores. • Stated that limiting the quantity to a certain percentage de-emphasizes alcohol sales. That is also what the applicant was proposing. Commissioner Resnikoff: • Said that if the other nearby service station (at the opposite corner) comes asking for 24-hour operation in the future, they could also be conditioned to a specific percentage of floor space devoted to the sale of alcohol. Director Paul Kermoyan said that at a meeting today in San Jose with ABC he was advised that ABC is working to also restrict single bottle sales. Campbell Planning Commission Minutes for October 9, 2012 Page 8 Commissioner Resnikoff: • Agreed with previous comments that refilling propane tanks is very noisy. • Added that a propane canister swap station makes more sense or perhaps limiting the allowable hours of refilling propane tanks from a large tank system. Commissioner Brennan asked about the operational hours of the liquor store on the corner. Planner Steve Prosser said that there are no late night hours. They usually close before 10 p.m. but can stay open until 11 p.m. under standard business hours. Commissioner Brennan said that this service station would serve a different market than a liquor store with folks buying on their way home. He said he is okay with alcohol sales until 11 p.m. Commissioner Gibbons asked staff for operational hours for other gas stations such as the Safeway on Hamilton and the Chevron at Bascom and Hamilton. Planner Steve Prosser said that the Chevron has 24-hour operation and no restriction on alcohol sales hours except for the State required discontinued alcohol sales at 2 a.m. Safeway's fueling station has a small percentage of alcohol sales and closes at 10 p.m. Commissioner Gibbons asked how window signs are enforced. Planner Steve Prosser said that there are State regulations on alcohol signage allowed. Other than that the Sign Ordinance governs signage. Commissioner Gibbons asked who enforces the floor area utilized for alcohol sales. Planner Steve Prosser said that would be handled through site inspections. There are systems in place to prevent after hours sales. Commissioner Gibbons asked if any enforcement is done by complaint. Planner Steve Prosser replied yes although commercial compliance is more pro-active. Commissioner Gibbons: • Stated that there is no obligation to provide a liquor license to this facility. • Pointed out that there are plenty of gas stations nearby as well as plenty of liquor establishments nearby. There is a lighted intersection offering an ease of use to turn around to access existing establishments selling both liquor and gasoline. • Opined that another place to sell liquor near residential areas is not needed as there is already an overconcentration. Campbell Planning Commission Minutes for October 9, 2012 Page 9 Director Paul Kermoyan: • Questioned the apparent assumption by the Commission of a one year sunset condition. • Clarified that Condition 2 requires that permits must be secured within one calendar year of approval. • Added that if the Commission wants to revisit its approval in a year that could be added with an additional condition of approval to that effect. Commissioner Resnikoff: • Stated that his initial concern was the potential for more alcohol requests but the proposed 11 p.m. end of alcohol sales at this location reduced his concern. • Referred to a letter from the applicant contained in the staff report and questioned whether the alcohol coolers lock automatically. • Said that his focus is more on potential noise impacts. • Stated that employees cannot do site upkeep activities outdoors after 10 p.m. • Supported cone-year review of operations. Commissioner Brennan suggested time limits for refilling propane canisters. Commissioner Resnikoff agreed that a larger propane refilling tank should not be used past 11 p.m. as it is very noisy. He suggested that converting from one large tank to a swap station is a good idea. Commissioner Brennan said if they go with the large tank system for propane he thinks the closing time should actually be sooner than 11 p.m. due to noise. Commissioner Roseberry: • Said that he may have forgotten how noisy it may be when refilling propane canisters by large tank. • Admitted that he usually goes to a U-Haul that is in an out-of-way location. • Added that he likes to use the larger tank to refill canisters. • Stated that he is okay either way -limit hours or go with a canister swap out system. • Said that allowing alcohol sales will not bring this neighborhood down. Commissioner Gibbons: • Suggested replacing proposed turf block with decorative pavers or decorative concrete instead. • Reiterated her concern that three liquor establishments out of four corners in this intersection are too many. Commissioner Brennan asked the cost difference between decorative pavers and turf block. Commissioner Gibbons said that it is about the same given that no irrigation is required to keep it going. Campbell Planning Commission Minutes for October 9, 2012 Page 10 Chair Reynolds: • Said that he is okay with alcohol sales. The proposed hours are fine. • Supported permeable concrete over turf block. • Suggested if the larger propone tank system is used that the hours of service be limited to perhaps 8 a.m. through 10 p.m. • Said that he is supportive and this is a beautiful project and a great addition to this corner. Commissioner Razumich: • Agreed with Chair Reynolds' comments. • Stressed the need to prevent single container alcohol sales. • Recommended mandating the swap system for propane. • Reiterated his recommendation for fencing in back to provide additional security. Commissioner Roseberry asked just what noise level there is when refueling propane from a larger tank. Commissioner Razumich said that it's noisy. You can't have a discussion with another person standing beside you while the refilling is underway. He added that he refilled a propane canister using a tank system just this past weekend. Commission Roseberry questioned how bad or what noise level is achieved. He added that it is kind of convenient to be able to refill your own tanks. Planner Steve Prosser said that he doesn't have the noise level information this evening but a standard could be conditioned. Commissioner Roseberry cautioned that it is a big expense to install this propane tank so it should be known for sure that it can stay before it is installed. Director Paul Kermoyan: • Pointed out that this noise source is already there but simply being relocated. • Added that what is changing is the hours of operation. Perhaps the future use of the propone refilling station can be limited to its current hours. • Said that if the relocation is of concern, it can be moved closer to where it currently is located. Commissioner Roseberry added that it may be possible to screen noise from the propane refueling with a block wall. Commissioner Resnikoff: • Said that it is noisy but not a jackhammer. They currently allow propane refilling to 11 p.m. at this station. • Agreed that impacts could be mitigated by reducing hours for that task to 10 p.m. • Said that two options appear to be either reducing hours or switching to a swap station for propane canisters. Campbell Planning Commission Minutes for October 9, 2012 Page 11 Chair Reynolds asked about swapping a parking space. Planner Steve Prosser suggested relocating the propane tank along Hamilton Avenue in its current location. This will result in no loss of parking. The issue as to relocating was simply to improve the aesthetic of the site from Hamilton. Chair Reynolds: • Supported the options to either limit hours for propane refilling or switch to a swap system. • Said that he likes the idea of leaving it there (current placement). • Pointed out that motor home owners are looking for places to refill. Commissioner Resnikoff said he was unfamiliar with how motor homes refuel their propane. Commissioner Roseberry said that the propane refueling tank has long hoses that could reach a certain distance. He added that motor homes have similar but larger tanks to what homeowners use for their grills. Commissioner Resnikoff asked if they pull the motor home right up to the tank. Commissioner Roseberry replied yes. Motion: Upon motion of Commissioner Resnikoff, seconded by Commissioner Roseberry, the Planning Commission adopted Resolution No. 4084 approving a Conditional Use Permit with Site and Architectural Review Permit (PLN2011-272) to allow an addition and conversion of an existing vehicle service station into a 7-Eleven convenience market with late night activity and beer and wine sales on property located at 337 E. Hamilton Avenue, with the following modifications: • Add a condition of approval requiring aone-year review of operations to evaluate noise or other impacts; • Add a condition to restrict the hours to fill propane canisters from a tank to 8 a.m. through 10 p.m. or switch to a propane swap system; • Revise the condition for proposed turf block to replace it with permeable pavers; • Add a condition requiring security fencing at the back of the site; • Add a condition prohibiting the sale of single serving alcohol containers (breaking up a mulit-pak to sell a single bottle or can); and • Add a condition prohibiting the placement of any merchandise on the sidewalk in front of the store; by the following roll call vote: AYES: Brennan, Resnikoff, Razumich, Reynolds and Roseberry Campbell Planning Commission Minutes for October 9, 2012 Page 12 NOES: Gibbons ABSENT: None ABSTAIN: Finch Chair Reynolds advised that this item is final unless appealed in writing to the City Clerk within 10 calendar days. Commissioner Finch returned to the chambers and dais upon the conclusion of Agenda Item No. 1. *** MISCELLANEOUS ITEM Commissioner Gibbons asked City Attorney William Seligmann if Commissioner Razumich should recuse from this next item due to a conflict of interest as a property owner in downtown. City Attorney William Seligmann replied no. 2. General discussion of downtown outdoor restaurant seating enclosures. Director Paul Kermoyan presented the following report: • Said that this is simply a discussion item for which no decisions will be made by the Commission this evening. • Advised that comments from the Commissioners will help staff in processing outdoor dining areas, which are typically approved at staff level. • Said that staff has identified some issues and wants to understand the vision for outdoor dining in the downtown. • Admitted that his personal vision would include removal of wrought iron and permanent barriers. • Said he has questions as to what the City's vision may be. • Questioned why Blue Line has incorporated stanchions. Aqui's was previously approved using stanchions. Katie Bloom's outdoor area is built in. Coffee shops use flowing outdoor seating areas. • Reported on a meeting with ABC today where he learned that it is a myth that they require enclosures. Rather they want to see some form of containment but it does not require a hard barrier. Additionally, ABC allows cities to set their own standards. • Pointed out that there is potential for two or three more restaurants that will soon come into downtown with need for outdoor seating. Commissioner Gibbons: • Recounted that per her memory Twist started with enclosures as they had a deep private property entry area that could be enclosed. • Added that she does not recall a time where a mandate for enclosures for outdoor dining areas was established. Campbell Planning Commission Minutes for October 9, 2012 Page 13 • Pointed out that the width of the sidewalk and placement of trees and other fixtures will have an impact on how outdoor dining can be accommodated. A minimum width of sidewalk must be retained for pedestrian passage. Director Paul Kermoyan: • Reported that he also learned that stanchions are an element that ABC dislikes the most. They don't contain but rather they move. • Said that they seem to prefer something such as flanking larger planters to help delineate the outdoor dining service area. At this point, Commissioner Razumich advised that, following a quick consultation with City Attorney William Seligmann, he has decided it is appropriate to recuse from participation in this item due to a professional conflict of interest. He left the meeting at 8:58 p.m. Director Paul Kermoyan continued: • Pointed out that Sonoma Chicken Coop has no barriers for its outdoor dining. Commissioner Gibbons pointed out that there is not enough room there even without barriers for wheelchair access around the outdoor seating, which she takes exception to as a friend of someone in a wheelchair. Commissioner Brennan added that there is no room for strollers to pass either. Director Paul Kermoyan: • Said that some of the information derived from the meeting with ABC is that Palo Alto does not use barriers; Mountain View has guidelines for barriers but the concern is more for protection of the outdoor dining areas from vehicles; Santana Row does not utilize barriers but rather has its tables hugging the building wall. If tables come out further there is an adequate pedestrian path left open between them. • Reiterated that ABC has said that use of planters is fine to delineate an outdoor dining space. They are intended to frame the area available to a particular business with an ABC license. • Reminded that no decision is being requested here. • Pointed out that when staff currently reviews outdoor dining permits, it uses previous approvals as a guideline. Commissioner Gibbons: • Stated that she is not of the opinion that rules have been enacted for enclosing outdoor seating areas. At the property line, it has been the choice of owners on how to enclose their outdoor seating areas. • Said that she has no problem with a contained area or with one that is not contained. • Advised that she does have a problem with no accessibility. Encroaching into the public property (sidewalk) should not be allowed. Campbell Planning Commission Minutes for October 9, 2012 Page 14 Director Paul Kermoyan clarified that the reason for outdoor seating permits is to allow use of the public right-of-way (sidewalk) for outdoor dining while leaving space for pedestrians to pass through. Commissioner Gibbons said that the sidewalk remaining in front of EI Guapo's enclosed outdoor dining area is too narrow. Director Paul Kermoyan advised that the City did approve EI Guapo's and Cardiff's outdoor dining enclosures. Commissioner Roseberry said that permanent barriers actually help ensure accessibility remains available on the public sidewalks. Commissioner Gibbons added that they also allow crowd control outside of the barrier. Commissioner Finch said that there must be a better solution than that used by Sonoma as it is tough to get through there even without a wheelchair or stroller. She said that a minimum sidewalk width is needed to allow outdoor dining. Chair Reynolds asked if the Commission is codifying something. Director Paul Kermoyan said no. He is just seeking input or a context on how to make outdoor seating area decisions into the future. Chair Reynolds said that he finds wrought iron to be decorative but he prefers to stay away from barriers from flimsier materials such as PVC pipe etc. He mentioned the Sushi Confidential seating area. Commissioner Gibbons said that the Sushi Confidential seating area barrier is very nice and is made of clear glass. Director Paul Kermoyan said it appears that hard barriers are okay with everyone. Chair Reynolds replied yes. He pointed out that during the weekly Farmer's Market people often sit at the outdoor dining tables in those restaurant locations without a hard barrier even if they are not patrons of that particular business. Commissioner Roseberry said that even with a barrier it will not make more space if the sidewalk is too narrow. Commissioner Resnikoff: • Said that it seems like there is room at Sonoma Chicken Coop for outdoor tables and still allow people to get by them. • Added that he finds it odd to walk between tables at Santana Row while people are dining. • Stated that it is up to the individual restaurants to police the use of their tables by non patrons. Campbell Planning Commission Minutes for October 9, 2012 Page 15 • Pointed out that the removable hard barrier used by Cafe Campbell that is put away after hours leaves the sidewalk completely available when the restaurant is closed. Therefore he likes to see the ability to pull away outdoor seating when not in use. Commissioner Gibbons said again that it has not been the City who has controlled the type of outdoor seating area design but rather the individual owners who have determine how they want to set themselves up. Director Paul Kermoyan said that the City did approve the outdoor seating for Blue Line but not the use of stanchions to enclose the area. Commissioner Brennan: • Agreed that sufficient space for pedestrians to get by doesn't exist in some parts of downtown with outdoor seating. • Added that some outdoor seating such as Starbuck's, the adjacent ice cream shop and Orchard Valley sometimes look dumpy when furnishings are moved around by patrons. • Stated that they tend to look nicer when there is wait staff overseeing the area. When tables are out of view of a restaurant's staff it's easier to shift things around (chairs and tables). Commissioner Resnikoff: • Said that it is up to the owner to maintain the approved seating set up. • Asked if staff takes measurements when approving an outdoor seating area. • Stressed the need to honor accessibility laws. Director Paul Kermoyan explained that staff requires a site plan prepared by the applicant depicting property lines and plotting where tables and chairs will be placed to scale. Staff does take measurements. Commissioner Resnikoff questioned whether two or three-person tables were approved. He said that there can be more problems with a third person sitting with their back toward the street, which leaves too little space for pedestrians to pass by on the sidewalk. Commissioner Finch agreed that having diners sit face to face along the building leaves more room for passers by. Director Paul Kermoyan said that outdoor dining is a part of the City's vision statement and is good for the downtown. The question is how to approve this seating design wise. Commissioner Gibbons: • Said that she is hearing two different things. One is whether stanchions should be used or not and the other is encroachment into the public right-of-way. • Stated that if staff feels that no stanchions should be utilized the question is what barriers can restaurants use that are removable when not in use? Campbell Planning Commission Minutes for October 9, 2012 Page 16 • Questioned if the issue at hand is the use of stanchions or more interaction between the dining space and the downtown in general. Director Paul Kermoyan said that he is hearing from the Planning Commission that accessibility is the most important thing. He said that using stanchions can create problems as they can be moved while hard barriers stay in place. Commissioner Resnikoff said that if room exists, permanent barriers are desirable but only if there is enough room left for pedestrians. Commissioner Finch pointed out that places such as Disneyland have holes in the ground to hold up the temporary barriers or stanchions. Commissioner Roseberry said that for a militant person in a wheelchair, the law would be on their side to move obstructions out of the way. There should be nothing in the path of travel. Director Kermoyan said that on paper these seating areas meet access standards. Staff would not approve something that goes against access standards. Commissioner Resnikoff asked what the clearance rule is in order to be approved. Director Paul Kermoyan responded the standard is a four-foot clearance but that there can be occasional pinch points of no less than 36-inches. Commissioner Gibbons said that the City's regulations show afour-foot path but she doesn't believe that meets ADA standards. Director Paul Kermoyan said that pinch points are allowed. He reiterated that it is clear than for any outdoor seating that accessibility is by far the most important issue. The use or non-use of barriers is less important. The barriers we have today are okay so staff can safely continue as currently processing outdoor seating applications for the downtown. Commissioner Roseberry asked staff how the use of a hole in the ground to hold the stanchions might work. Director Paul Kermoyan said there are a lot of types of materials from stanchions to bollard type posts etc. Commissioner Roseberry stressed the need to enforce accessibility. He added that he was one who had been under the impression that barriers were required by ABC and said that he personally felt more secure with a permanent barrier for a sit down meal in an outside dining area while less necessary when stopping somewhere just for coffee. Commissioner Gibbons: • Agreed that she likes a barrier too. Campbell Planning Commission Minutes for October 9, 2012 Page 17 • Recounted that when the City did the downtown streetscape planning many years ago a discussion was had on the issue of sidewalk width. • Said that the motivation for barriers is to have a sense of territory and/or control. REPORT OF THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR Interim Director Paul Kermoyan added the following additional details to his written report: • Informed that a Study Session was conducted by Council on October 2"d to discuss the pending preparation of a Dell Avenue Area Plan. The project scoping was discussed and what the City is intending to create with this Plan. The Council intends to appoint a Community Advisory Committee consisting of a couple of members of Council, a couple of Commissioners and interested stakeholders. • Pointed out that the large crane at Merrill Gardens was removed today from the site. Commissioner Roseberry said that keeping this very large crane in place is very expensive so it makes sense to remove it as soon as it is no longer routinely being used. ADJOURNMENT The Planning Commission meeting adjourned at 9:35 p.m. to the next Regular Planning Commission Meeting of October 23, 2012. SUBMITTED BY: Corinne hinn, Recording Secretary APPROVED BY: ~~ Phili Reynolds, Jr., Ch it ATTEST: Paul Ke oyan, Secretary